Gandhi’s Vision Versus Political Realities by Rohan Khanna

This excerpt features an interview or discussion where an Indian scholar, Ashis Ray, expresses his views on various topics, primarily focusing on India-Pakistan relations and the political landscape of South Asia. Ray advocates for peaceful coexistence and understanding between India and Pakistan, emphasizing the importance of Gandhian non-violence as a guiding principle. He also discusses internal political issues within both countries, such as India’s secularism, the state of the Indian economy under Modi, and the challenges faced by Pakistan as an Islamic state, including discrimination against non-Muslims and women. Finally, the conversation touches upon the geopolitical standing of leaders and the internal struggles within South Asian nations like Bangladesh, highlighting the complex dynamics of the region.

India-Pakistan Relations: Aspirations, Differences, and Connections

Based on the sources, India-Pakistan relations are characterized by a complex interplay of historical aspirations for friendship, fundamental constitutional differences, specific points of contention, and underlying people-to-people connections.

Here’s a detailed discussion:

• Aspiration for Friendship and Peaceful Coexistence:
• A primary wish expressed in the sources is to see “closeness and friendship between Pakistan and India”.
• The suggested approach to foster this relationship involves first removing misunderstandings and “hateful things,” then discussing friendship, and eventually integrating both nations into a regional framework like SAARC, drawing inspiration from the European Union model.
• The speaker, identifying as a Gandhian, emphasizes the importance of achieving these goals “without violence”.
• Constitutional and Ideological Differences:
• A significant distinction highlighted is that Pakistan chose to become an “Islamic state,” while India adopted a “secular state” framework.
• India’s secularism, as defined by Mahatma Gandhi, means “equal status for all regions” and “religious tolerance,” where Hindus respect Islam and Muslims respect Hindus. This contrasts with Nehru’s initial preference for Western secularism (no place for religion), which Gandhi argued “will not work in India”.
• In Pakistan, the constitution reportedly stipulates a 96% Muslim population and states that a non-Muslim cannot hold the position of head of state or Prime Minister, which is viewed as discrimination.
• While India’s constitution contains “no discrimination,” it is noted that some people in power are currently acting in ways that violate the constitution and equality, and the government is perceived as silent on these matters.
• Specific Points of Contention and Diplomatic Strain:
• Kashmir is referred to as a “dead issue” or “non-issue,” with the assertion that any country or state has the right to determine its own constitution, implying no outside interference should occur regarding Article 370.
• When Article 370 was removed in Kashmir, diplomatic ties strained, leading to both Pakistan and India recalling their respective High Commissioners.
• While cricket is mentioned as a good game, “business is more important than that” in the context of bilateral relations.
• People-to-People Connections and Areas of Cooperation:
• Historically, there have been strong people-to-people connections, such as many Pakistanis traveling to India for “medical treatment,” with thousands going to India for this purpose at one time.
• Despite political tensions, the sources indicate that ordinary people from India and Pakistan can coexist peacefully, as exemplified by a Hindu and a Pakistani Muslim living together “like a family” in Dubai, suggesting that fear is not prevalent among the general public. The speaker believes it will take time for this sentiment to fully develop.
• It is also noted that the ability for people to travel between the countries, for instance, to Dubai, is not problematic for the general public.
• Internal Issues and Non-Interference:
• Internal issues within Pakistan, such as organizations acting with impunity and threatening violence, are recognized as “domestic issue[s] of Pakistan” that need to be “fought internally within Pakistan,” and India “cannot say anything about it” as it is an “internal matter”.
• Current Political Dynamics:
• Regarding Indian leadership, the sources suggest that Prime Minister Modi’s “power has reduced a bit in India” as his party “did not win the last election” with a majority.
• His international standing is downplayed, with the claim that he “does not have any potency” or “importance on the international stage”. His visit to Russia, for instance, was attributed to maintaining historical ties and ensuring India’s significant arms supply (46% of which comes from Russia).
• The Indian economy is described as “very bad” by India’s standards, unlike the higher economic performance during Manmohan Singh’s time.

Religious Tolerance: India-Pakistan Constitutional Divergence

Religious tolerance is a foundational concept in the discussion of India-Pakistan relations, particularly when examining the distinct constitutional frameworks of both nations.

In the context of India, the concept of religious tolerance is deeply embedded in its constitutional philosophy. Mahatma Gandhi’s vision for India’s constitution “did not add any religious flavour to it”. While Jawaharlal Nehru initially favored Western secularism, advocating for “no place for religion” as he was an “atheist non-believer,” Gandhi disagreed, stating that such an approach “will not work in India”. Instead, Gandhi’s definition of secularism for India became “equal status for all regions” and, critically, “religious tolerance”. This means “Hindus will respect Islam, Muslims will respect Hindus,” and this principle was enshrined in the Indian constitution. The sources explicitly state that “in India there is no discrimination in the constitution,” which is highlighted as a “greatness” of the country.

However, despite this constitutional commitment to religious tolerance and equality, concerns are raised that some individuals in power in India are currently “violating the constitution” by acting in ways that compromise equality, with the government perceived as being “silent on this matter”. This suggests a challenge to the practical implementation of religious tolerance in contemporary India.

In contrast, Pakistan “took the decision that it will become an Islamic state”. This choice has direct implications for religious tolerance, as its constitution reportedly stipulates a 96% Muslim population and states that “a non-Muslim cannot become a state here and he cannot become the Prime Minister,” which is explicitly identified as “discrimination”. Furthermore, it is noted that in Pakistan, “we do not give rights against non-Muslims” in many respects.

Despite these significant constitutional and political differences, there is an underlying sentiment that religious tolerance is possible at the people-to-people level. An anecdote illustrates this, describing a Hindu and a Pakistani Muslim living together “like a family” in Dubai, demonstrating that “it is not like this among the general public” that people are “getting scared” of each other based on religion, although it is acknowledged that “it will take some time” for this widespread sentiment to fully develop.

Subcontinental Economies: Challenges and Connections

Economic challenges are a significant aspect of the discussion surrounding India-Pakistan relations and regional stability. The sources highlight various economic issues and dynamics across India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh.

India’s Economic Situation: According to the sources, the condition of the Indian economy is described as “very bad” by India’s standards. This is contrasted with a previous period, specifically during Manmohan Singh’s tenure, when the economy was “very high”. The current economic state is also mentioned in the context of Prime Minister Modi’s domestic standing, where it’s noted that his power has “reduced a bit” as his party did not win the last election with a majority. Furthermore, it is suggested that “it is difficult for people to get visas”, which can indirectly affect economic activities like cross-border medical tourism and trade.

Pakistan’s Economic and Legal Context: While a general statement mentions that “prices have become such” and it is “a matter of prices in all the countries”, more specific internal challenges relate to long-standing family laws. These laws, which have been in place since at least 1961 and are constitutionally protected, dictate that in property matters, a girl “will get half the share” compared to a male, who “will be double”. This is identified as discrimination and has persisted despite efforts to change it. Additionally, it’s stated that in many respects, rights are “not give[n] against non-Muslims”, which could also imply economic disparities for minority populations.

Bangladesh’s Economic Challenges: The economy of Bangladesh has “fallen a bit,” primarily due to the impact of Covid-19. During the pandemic, Bangladesh’s exports, which are mostly textile exports and on which its economy heavily relies, “had reduced”. This reduction in exports meant that the economy “did not grow that much” even after Covid, leading to a situation where people “need jobs,” and “if someone does not have a job, then they will be unhappy”. It is also acknowledged that “it is not that easy to turn around the economy”.

Cross-Border Economic Activity: Historically, there has been significant cross-border economic activity, such as many Pakistanis traveling to India for “medical treatment,” with thousands going at one time. It’s also mentioned that “the medicines for them were sold from Pakistan”. This highlights a form of mutual economic benefit that has been impacted by strained diplomatic ties and difficulties in obtaining visas. The importance of economic relations is underscored by the statement that “business is more important” than other activities like cricket.

Leadership and Governance in South Asia

Political leadership plays a pivotal role in shaping the internal affairs and external relations of India and Pakistan, as well as influencing the broader South Asian region. The sources discuss various leaders, their ideologies, decisions, and impact on their respective nations.

Indian Political Leadership

• Mahatma Gandhi:
• His “struggle was right” and he is considered to be “at a different level” compared to other leaders.
• He played a crucial role in shaping India’s secular constitution, ensuring it “did not add any religious flavour to it”.
• He disagreed with Jawaharlal Nehru’s preference for Western secularism (which meant “no place for religion” as Nehru was an “atheist non-believer”), stating it “will not work in India”.
• Gandhi’s definition of secularism for India emphasized “equal status for all regions” and “religious tolerance,” meaning “Hindus will respect Islam, Muslims will respect Hindus”. This principle was enshrined in the Indian constitution.
• Jawaharlal Nehru:
• He preferred Western secularism, advocating for “no place for religion” due to his atheistic beliefs, a view Gandhi opposed for India.
• He is considered by the speaker to be the second most important leader after Gandhi.
• Subhas Chandra Bose and Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel:
• Bose is acknowledged as a “great personality”.
• Patel, while brought into the discussion, is considered not to be “at the same level” as Gandhi, Nehru, or Bose.
• Maulana Azad:
• He was an important figure among Muslims in the Congress party and served as its president for many years, which was significant given the “issue with the Muslims” at the time.
• He is considered slightly less than the top three (Gandhi, Nehru, Bose).
• A personal complaint is noted that he primarily used Urdu, Persian, and Arabic, and did not adopt the Hindi language or fully embrace the Hindu community.
• Narendra Modi (Current Prime Minister):
• His “power has reduced a bit in India” as his party “did not win the last election” with a majority.
• His international standing is downplayed, with the assertion that he “does not have any potency” or “importance on the international stage”.
• His visit to Russia is attributed to maintaining historical ties and India’s significant reliance on Russia for arms supplies (46% of defense supplies come from Russia).
• Under his government, Article 370 was removed in Kashmir, which led to significant diplomatic strain, with both Pakistan and India recalling their High Commissioners.
• Concerns are raised that while India’s constitution prohibits discrimination, “people in power are a little different” and are “violating the constitution” by acting against equality, with the government perceived as “silent on this matter”.
• The current economic condition in India is described as “very bad” by India’s standards, unlike the “very high” economy during Manmohan Singh’s time.
• Manmohan Singh (Former Prime Minister):
• His tenure is highlighted as a period when the Indian economy was “very high,” contrasting with the current economic situation.

Pakistani Political Leadership

• Muhammad Ali Jinnah (Implied Founder of Pakistan):
• Upon Pakistan’s formation, the decision was made for it to become an “Islamic state”.
• His speech on August 11th is referenced, where he purportedly stated he had “nothing to do with it” (referring to religion in state affairs), though the speaker notes he kept people suppressed.
• The Pakistani constitution, a result of this foundational decision, stipulates a 96% Muslim population and states that a “non-Muslim cannot become a state here and he cannot become the Prime Minister,” which is explicitly identified as “discrimination”.
• Family laws established since 1961 dictate that a girl “will get half the share” compared to a male in property matters, which is also identified as discrimination and has persisted despite efforts to change it.
• Current Internal Challenges:
• The presence of organizations “whose name is also scary to take” that act with impunity and threaten violence, even within the High Court, indicates a lack of state control over certain elements. This is recognized as a “domestic issue of Pakistan” that must be “fought internally within Pakistan,” as India “cannot say anything about it” due to it being an “internal matter”.

Bangladeshi Political Leadership

• Sheikh Hasina (Prime Minister):While her actions were deemed “good,” the reaction to them was considered “even worse”.
• The current political situation in Bangladesh is described as “not stable,” and questions are raised about the legitimacy of the representatives in power due to a lack of elections.
• Concerns are raised about the economy, which “had fallen a bit” due to Covid-19 affecting textile exports, leading to job shortages and public unhappiness.
• A “Mohammad” figure is mentioned as a “decent man” but lacking “experience of administration”.
• The Prime Minister/Chief Advisor is said to be the Chief Executive but lacks significant power, with actual powers residing in the hands of five people, including the army, indicating a complex power structure.

South Asian Nations: Internal Discord and Governance Challenges

Internal conflicts within India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh are highlighted in the sources, revealing challenges related to constitutional adherence, governance, and societal stability.

In India, despite its constitutional commitment to non-discrimination, the sources indicate that “people in power are a little different” and are “violating the constitution” by acting against the principle of equality. This internal challenge is compounded by the perception that the government is “silent on this matter,” suggesting a lack of action against those violating constitutional principles. Historically, there was also a nuanced internal dynamic, as evidenced by a “complaint” regarding Maulana Azad, an important Muslim figure in the Congress party, for his preference for Urdu, Persian, and Arabic over Hindi, and a perceived failure to fully “adopt the Hindu community as his own”.

Pakistan faces significant internal conflicts rooted in its foundational decision to become an “Islamic state”. This is reflected in its constitution, which reportedly mandates a “96% Muslim population” and states that “a non-Muslim cannot become a state here and he cannot become the Prime Minister,” a clear instance of “discrimination”. Furthermore, Pakistan’s internal legal framework includes “family laws” since 1961 that stipulate a girl “will get half the share” in property compared to a male, who “will be double,” another form of discrimination that has persisted despite attempts to change it. A major internal challenge is the presence of “organizations, whose name is also scary to take,” that operate with impunity. These groups are depicted as capable of threatening violence, even within the High Court, indicating a lack of state control over certain elements. The sources explicitly state that this situation is a “domestic issue of Pakistan” that “will have to be fought internally within Pakistan”.

Bangladesh is also grappling with internal instability. The political situation is described as “not stable,” particularly due to a lack of recent elections, leading to questions about the legitimacy of the current representatives. Economic challenges, notably the reduction in textile exports during Covid-19, have resulted in a shortage of jobs and widespread public unhappiness, which can fuel internal unrest. Additionally, the country’s power structure is complex, with the Prime Minister/Chief Advisor, despite being the Chief Executive, lacking significant power, as actual authority is said to reside in the hands of “five people,” including the army, suggesting potential internal power struggles or a diluted civilian authority.

By Amjad Izhar
Contact: amjad.izhar@gmail.com
https://amjadizhar.blog

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